How Dr. Rhonda Patrick Uses Sauna and Heat

Kyle Allred: Well, if you're comfortable sharing, I would love to get into details about your specific sauna protocol that you've adapted in your life. How often do you use the sauna? What temperature? What humidity? You know, how long do you stay in there? So let's get into some of those details. And I'll preface this by saying this is not medical advice. Anyone that is considering using the sauna, good idea to check it out with your medical professional first in case you have a health condition that may make sauna use dangerous. But with that said, yeah, let's hear about what you've incorporated into your life.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Sure. Well, let's start with the studies and the data that I referred to and what the temperature, duration, etc. I talked a lot about frequency, 4 to 7 times a week, but I didn't talk much about temperature or how long people were in the sauna. So, in almost all of those studies, the temperature of the sauna— these were saunas in Finland, and they were around 174°F, and the humidity was between 10% to 20%, I think, something like that. And so what was very interesting to me when I was looking at the data coming out of Dr. Jari Laukkanen's lab is that duration in the sauna seemed to matter with respect to robustness of the results.

So I mentioned, for example, you know, people that use the sauna 4 to 7 times a week were 50% less likely to die from, like, you know, cardiovascular disease-related death. Well, that number was referring to people that stayed in the sauna greater than 19 minutes. So this was about 20 minutes. So 20 minutes is the sweet spot at about 174°F, with 10% to 20% humidity. People that sat in the sauna for like 11 minutes on average, their reduction in cardiovascular-disease-related death from cardiovascular disease was like 8%.

Kyle Allred: Yeah.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Eight percent versus 50%, big difference there. So duration definitely matters with respect to the sauna. So that's kind of where I started out with my sort of, okay, what am I— what am I gonna do?

And then I also mentioned earlier about heat shock proteins. I'm also very interested in activating my heat shock proteins. And so the 163°F for 30 minutes activated them by 50% over baseline levels.

Kyle Allred: Yeah.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: As for my protocol, when I go for my long runs, I do not use the sauna afterward, but I do use a Jacuzzi at night. So, when I'm doing my Peloton bike, I do a lot of high-intensity interval training, you know, Pelotons, and I crank the sauna up, you know, about an hour, an hour and a half before I'm going to get on that Peloton. I get on the Peloton and then go into the sauna immediately afterward. The sauna is typically around 186°F when I get in.

And I stay in there anywhere between 20 and 30 minutes depending mostly on how intense my workout was because I've already elevated my core body temperature from my high-intensity workout.

Kyle Allred: Okay.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: And then there are times when I don't work out, I just get in the sauna. I end up staying in there longer for sure. I'm in there for 30 minutes at about 186°F, but I'm heat adapted. Like I can't tell you like when I first started doing this, I certainly did not start out doing that. So, so definitely keep that in mind. I also like to pour hot water on the rocks. I have a little bucket that I use for that. My hygrometer broke. When I was measuring it, I was getting about 20% to 30% humidity. And then once I got 30%, I was like, I couldn't handle it.

So I went back down to 10 to 20% humidity because it just feels so hot. So that's typically— those are my settings that I do. Frequency, how often I do it, it really depends on what I have going on. So, there are times when I'm like, I'm doing it 5 days a week, but then there's other times when I'm like twice a week. So, my baseline is four times per week, but I have been doing a lot of jacuzzi. So I've been doing jacuzzi at nighttime. It's like the only time my husband and I have to ourselves, you know, once our son goes to bed. And so we like to go out in the jacuzzi, look at the stars, and it's very relaxing and time spent together. But our jacuzzi is about 104°F.

And a lot of people have asked me, you know, can you get the same benefits from the sauna as you do from a hot bath? And we don't have all the empirical evidence to say that yes, for sure, but we have quite a bit that seems to be accumulating. Heat shock proteins have been shown to be elevated with hot baths. Brain-derived neurotrophic factor increases with hot baths. There's been some effects on depression as well and cardiovascular health. And so, you know, I might be going out on a limb here, but I would say I really think that hot baths and Jacuzzis can have a similar effect. Now, staying in there, staying in the jacuzzi for 20 minutes with your shoulders submerged down is kind of key. And some of the hot bath studies were the same.

The hot bath studies used 104°F water, and people were submerged from their shoulders down as well. But that's kind of the protocol that I follow.

Kyle Allred: So you're typically using it to extend your workout. You're getting your heart rate up on the bike or going for a run. And then your heart rate remains elevated once you get into the sauna?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: It does. Yeah, that is— that's kind of my jam. But there are times when I get in there without working out. Sometimes it's like, okay, if I'm going to get in the sauna for 20 to 30 minutes, I can hop on my Peloton and just push it for 10 minutes, do a 10-minute high-intensity workout.

So, basically, what I'm doing is taking my workout to the next level. That's what I feel like the sauna is doing, where it's like, all right, I did my workout, and boom, I'm going to go to the next level. And I always go back to that cardiorespiratory fitness study where it's like, better, you know, better than exercise alone.

Kyle Allred: Yep. And you mentioned the hot bath could potentially be a replacement for the sauna. How about just a long extended hot shower for people that don't have a bath?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Yeah, that's an interesting question. You do, I mean, you get a lot of steam from showers as well. So, you know, I do think steam showers can have some beneficial effects.

I don't think it's going to be anywhere near like the data that I mentioned, you know, just because you're just not getting as hot when you're taking a hot shower. Like even like when you're in a hot bath, like you could get really hot. You're just not getting quite as hot with a hot shower. But I do think there can be some benefits perhaps. I would— I would tend to go for the hot bath though if you have— most people do have a bathtub. I know not everyone does, but if you do have a bathtub, I would go for the hot bath over the hot shower.

Kyle Allred: Got it. And how about hydration? How do you— what's your kind of hydration protocol before and after the sauna?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Yeah, that's a good point. You know, you do lose a lot of sweat in the sauna, and with sweat, you also can lose—

Kyle Allred: Uh-huh.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Sodium is the main one, but you can also lose, you know, some other electrolytes like magnesium, potassium. So I definitely try— I definitely stay hydrated. And I switch between— sometimes I'll have like a green juice that I make with like some kale, a little bit of lemon, some cucumber. So I'm getting some of the magnesium and potassium and stuff. Or I'll do the Nuun, the electrolyte supplement Nuun. They have like a sugar-free version of it. Or sometimes I do some keto— it's a ketone salt and it's called Keto Start. And it has a lot of— it has like magnesium, it has potassium, it has a lot of electrolytes in it. And so I'll use that. In fact, I'm drinking that right now. But so that's typically what I do.

Kyle Allred: Okay. Cool. After the sauna, not before. Got it.

And speaking of after the sauna, I know this is a whole other discussion, but cold therapy, you know, do you ever get in the cold shower or do a cold plunge, jump in a frozen lake after the sauna?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Definitely don't jump in a frozen lake unless I'm visiting another country like Finland. But yeah, I do. So I do have a cold plunge and I also do like cold showers as well. I don't do it as frequently as I should. You know, there are a lot of benefits to the cold as well. In fact, a lot of these cultures that we talked about earlier, like Finland and Russia, like they— a large percentage of them go from hot and then into cold. I don't go immediately into it because when you're in heat, such as a sauna or hot bath, vasodilation is occurring.

You're increasing your blood flow, you know, you're getting vasodilation and then the complete opposite happens when you go into a cold plunge or cold water, cold water immersion in some shape or form, vasoconstriction occurs. And so, I've had some scary incidents where going from one extreme directly into the other without waiting like 5 minutes or a few minutes, you know, where my blood pressure or something just goes really low and I just like— I get super dizzy and it's a little scary.

Kyle Allred: Hmm.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: So I do think that exercising caution when going from extremes like that is important. Especially in the summertime, I like to get into the cold plunge a couple of minutes after the sauna, after I rest for 2 to 5 minutes.

Kyle Allred: You mentioned that you're really well heat adapted to the sauna because of all your regular use. For someone that's kind of building their heat tolerance up, is there a way that they can kind of tell how long is too long in the sauna? Are there any kind of signs they should be looking for? Like, ooh, I should probably take a break and not push it?

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: Yeah, I think, you know, your heart starts to really— your heart rate starts to get elevated and, you know, you definitely want to push past that point once you're heat adapted, but, you know, you start to feel uncomfortable, but you reach a point where your heart's going really fast and you just feel really, really uncomfortable. And I think that's the time I usually like to get out. I think people should definitely listen to their bodies. I mean, getting out when you experience the slightest bit of uncomfortableness, maybe not—

Kyle Allred: Yeah.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: —the way to go. But, you know, when you're in there, you know. You're feeling like, this is— I'm getting really hot. And again, like, once you hit the 20-minute mark, that's really all that's needed, you know, 20 minutes, 174°F. That's what all these studies have shown have been beneficial for reducing cardiovascular disease mortality and all-cause mortality and Alzheimer's and dementia risk. So that's, I think, a pretty good rule of thumb as well.

Kyle Allred: Yeah.

Dr. Rhonda Patrick: You know, 20 minutes. And you can also have a timer outside of your sauna. I used to do that. I used to have a timer clock and I was like, okay, I reached my time. So that's also another option.